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- <text id=90TT1019>
- <link 90TT1509>
- <link 89TT0011>
- <title>
- Apr. 23, 1990: Interview:Fred Joseph
- </title>
- <history>
- TIME--The Weekly Newsmagazine--1990
- Apr. 23, 1990 Dan Quayle:No Joke
- </history>
- <article>
- <source>Time Magazine</source>
- <hdr>
- BUSINESS, Page 62
- "We Grew Quickly and We Stepped on Toes"
- </hdr>
- <body>
- <p>In his first interview since the bankruptcy of Wall Street's
- Drexel Burnham, company chief Fred Joseph blames the Government
- and the press for hastening his firm's demise
- </p>
- <p>By Richard Behar and Fred Joseph
- </p>
- <p> Q. Many people feel that Drexel Burnham Lambert epitomized
- raw greed in the 1980s and that there is poetic justice in its
- demise.
- </p>
- <p> A. That's primarily the result of how we were depicted in
- the press, and I think it's outrageous. The press has to
- capsulize things that people can absorb. The fact is, Drexel
- became the major source of capital for industrial companies in
- the country. Even our worst enemies think only a handful of
- people did anything wrong, so it's unfair to the vast majority
- of people at Drexel to lump them into a two-word tag line. The
- damage that's been done is absolutely unjustified. We grew
- quickly and we stepped on toes. But we did no more than other
- investment banks did when they hit periods of unusual
- competitive advantage.
- </p>
- <p> Q. In the end, who killed Drexel? Was it the Government,
- your colleagues, or even you?
- </p>
- <p> A. The destruction of Drexel at some point became
- inevitable. I'll accept the responsibility, and if I knew we had
- done things that were wrong, I would accept blame. What happened
- was a confluence of events, starting with the federal
- investigation [of Drexel's junk-bond department] and hitting a
- climax when the firm was forced to plead guilty and pay what we
- thought were unnecessarily high penalties [$650 million].
- Congress then changed the rules by requiring savings and loans
- to sell their high-yield bonds, and the market for those
- securities fell. Then Drexel faced yet another rule change,
- when the regulators suddenly raised our capital requirements.
- Literally overnight, they said we could no longer touch the $300
- million in excess capital in our brokerage subsidiary.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Shouldn't you have known there was impending doom?
- </p>
- <p> A. We had cut costs 50%, and we believed the firm was going
- to operate profitably in 1990. The problem is that one day you
- have $300 million and the next day your banker tells you that
- you can't use it. That's troublesome. Within a day we were
- totally shut out of the capital markets.
- </p>
- <p> Q. With a little nudging, couldn't the regulators have got
- the banks to save Drexel?
- </p>
- <p> A. It's a capitalistic system. The banks and regulators are
- not charged with saving us, and we never asked for direct
- Government intervention. We did argue aggressively with the
- regulators, and there were moments when I was angry. I had hoped
- that the regulators would give some encouragement to the banks,
- which I don't think happened. I think Drexel's lack of friends--as perceived by the world--might have made it easier for
- a midlevel official in one of those agencies to not help us. In
- their eyes, we were lacking in political constituencies.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Do you have any final words for Rudolph Giuliani, the
- former U.S. Attorney who launched the Drexel investigation?
- </p>
- <p> A. The federal racketeering law, as applied to financial
- institutions, is a devastating nuclear bomb. The penalties we
- paid ended up doing material long-term damage to the firm,
- costing 11,000 people their jobs and costing the markets what
- most people will admit was a creative, innovative force for
- financing companies. All this because of alleged wrongdoing by
- a handful of people. It just seems unfair.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Drexel was criticized for doling out more than $200
- million in cash bonuses just weeks before its collapse.
- </p>
- <p> A. A false picture has been painted. There was no
- expectation of the collapse at the time the bonuses were paid,
- and the vast majority of them were obligations from the previous
- year.
- </p>
- <p> Q. One thing you might have done differently was not to take
- your own $2.5 million bonus in the form of Drexel stock, which
- is now virtually worthless.
- </p>
- <p> A. My wife would certainly say that. I took the bonus in
- stock to encourage other employees to do the same. At least
- nobody could accuse me of having some prophet's ability to
- predict the coming crisis.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Did you ever fear that junk bonds were a house of cards?
- </p>
- <p> A. I think that's rhetoric from the press and politicians.
- High-yield bonds are a $300 billion market and there will be
- cycles, but there's no question of their legitimacy.
- </p>
- <p> Q. But wasn't the market too dependent on one man, former
- Drexel financier Michael Milken? And did his dismissal from
- Drexel cause irreparable harm to morale?
- </p>
- <p> A. It's hard to judge midstride, as we are right now,
- whether the market was too dependent on Milken. It's going to
- take more time to know. Michael is incredibly knowledgeable, but
- our high-yield department was a major team effort. We put
- together the RJR-Nabisco deal after Milken. As for morale, he
- had some pretty fervent supporters in the company, but I don't
- think there was any irreparable discontent when he left.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Did Milken really start a so-called whisper campaign
- against Drexel after he was dismissed?
- </p>
- <p> A. I have no idea. But from the beginning this case has
- involved what people now call combat public relations by
- Milken's defenders and enemies at levels that I think are
- unseemly. And I'm disturbed that while the gods are up there
- fighting, Drexel has gotten swept into it in ways that are
- reasonably horrifying.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Your colleagues say you always keep your cool. How do you
- cope?
- </p>
- <p> A. Getting rattled doesn't help you perform. At this point
- we've taken Drexel's $25 billion of inventory positions down to
- around $1 billion, and I'm too busy to try to figure out the
- long-term psychological impact on me. But it's been very sad to
- watch the dismantling of what we built. We were trying to create
- the most effective investment bank in the country, and for a
- moment in time, we achieved that.
- </p>
-
- </body>
- </article>
- </text>
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